pennsicdance: on the goop debate and website update

Alex Clark alexbclark at
Thu Sep 8 09:22:02 PDT 2005

At 01:34 PM 9/7/2005 -0500, whirlygig wrote:
>***If someone has a compiled list of dances in Playford 1 that should be
>moved to SOoP, and the later Playford's that could be in 1 due to thier
>repeated patterns and dance structure, I'd appreciate that breakdown.  I'm
>guessing I can't just take it as a given if it has the
>slipping/siding/arming structure that it's okay?***

AFAIK, the only Playford I dance that might actually be in the same 
progressive format that is typical of late Playford dances is Tom Tinker, 
and I'm not at all sure of that one. The rest seem to progress in different 
ways, and I would not assume that they are any more modern than other 
dances of the first half of the 17th century.

Epping Forest is in the "sidearm" format, but seems to have cannibalized 
figures from Mundesse. This does not indicate that it is much newer than 
Playford I, though, because Mundesse uses a very old (1551, Susato) tune 
and takes a form that may well have been obsolete  by the time of Playford 
I. Even if it was made out of figures from Mundesse, Epping Forest could 
still be as old as Playford I. So despite its seeming descent from a 
Playford I dance, I would not assume that it was either new or old when 
collected and published. Besides, I don't know if it is done in the SCA.

I could make a case that All a Mode de France was a new variation on 
Nonesuch, and that Nonesuch was old-fashioned at the time of Playford I. 
But this case would be subjective and probabilistic, and not very conclusive.

Sellenger's Round seems to have been the name of a popular dance decades 
before, but I don't know that this would have been the same dance, nor do I 
think that typical SCA versions thereof are necessarily the same dance that 
is in Playford.

Black Nag is very similar to Millison's Jig, from the first edition, and I 
can't see that its figures are unusual by comparison with first edition dances.

There are two dances called "Half Hannikin", one from Playford I and the 
other a modern invention. The latter is also called "Half Hannigan", and it 
uses sides and arms in a way that seems to have been influenced by Dargason.

Otherwise, I don't know much about which Playford dances are more likely to 
have been innovative or old-fashioned when collected. Except for Black Nag 
and Sellengers Round I tend to keep all of Playford I and ignore the rest, 
and I only teach my version of Sellengers once in a while, since I don't 
have recorded music to fit it.

>PS = Yes, I will correct the error on the site that has black nag listed as
>1651 rather then 1665.

IIRC, 1657, reprinted 1665. Same for Sellengers, though the usual SCA 
versions are based mainly on the 4th edition (1670); later on the Playford 
instructions reverted to something more like the original version.

Alex Clark/Henry of Maldon 

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