pennsicdance: Elitism and the real Caroso Ball

[Nikki Weston]

> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:pennsicdance-admin at www.pbm.com]On Behalf Of Patches023 at aol.com
> Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 3:55 PM
> Subject: pennsicdance: Elitism and the real Caroso Ball
> I hope no one takes the extremely biased opinions below as a
> personal affront but instead uses them to improve dancing at Pennsic.

Not taking any of this as a personal affront, and hoping that none of what I
say is taken as such either.

> I see the real CB as a very elitist activity on two fronts: the
> type of dances danced and the structure of the ball itself.

Yes, it is selective.  This is why there is only one "real CB" event at
Pennsic, lasting for only about two hours.  For two whole hours -- last year
during the day and this year against Midnight Madness -- out of how many
hours of dance opportunity?

I don't think that it is terribly more elitist than some of the specialized
period tourneys that are done, and I definately feel that there is a place
for them so long as they do not become the major, or even large, part of
dance at Pennsic.

> troupe didn't do.  In these last couple of years I am actually
> able to remember these dances from one Pennsic to the next and
> have even taught them.  I think I qualify as an intermediate

Yay! :)

> dancer.  So when I went the real CB and knew the names of only
> four dances and could only do one of them, this seems like the
> dance list is aimed not at the common dancer but at the elite
> advanced dancer.

I feel that it is neither.  The real CB is a focused event that some elite,
advanced dancers avoid (because they don't do 16c Italian or dislike the
format) and common dancers can do (if the care to put a little learning into
it).  It also had its playlist published quite some time before Pennsic,
allowing people to either decide it wasn't for them because they didn't know
the dances and didn't want to learn them, or go to classes that had some of
those dances taught.  Heck, one could even go up to folks who seem to be
doing lots of 16c dances during the evenings and ask them if they could
teach something off that list.

And even if you are one of those "elite advanced dancers" -- which I'm
guessing is a label for me if only because I Really Like Caroso -- there is
no guarantee that you know the dances at the real CB.  Last year, very few
of the dances on the real CB playlist matched the knowledge of the dancers.
As a result, Ballo del Fiore, a very common, very easy, very popular dance,
got done for perhaps a third of the time.

This year, there was a closer match between what the musicians and dancers
knew, and a greater variety of dances were done.  Even someone who only knew
one dance on the list because of inexperience got to dance, and no one had
any problem with that dance being done twice in a row.

> The way the real CB is conducted also seems elitist.  I attended
> the CBs in 2001 and 2002 and I think I was there for the entire

The Caroso Ball you attended in 2001 was NOT one of the "real Caroso Balls."
It was the same kind of CB that is done throughout the SCA at dance events,
and included both the 16c Italian dances that get the reputation of being
only for the advanced dancers AND basic English Country, as well as 15c
Italian, Almandes, etc. etc.

Greg hosted the very first Caroso Ball that actually focused entirely on
what might have been danced at such an event when they were done in period
last year.  Hence, "real Caroso Ball."  It may or may not have been the
event you went to in 2002.  In 2002, there were two different Caroso's --
the extremely focused one on Monday and the more traditional, broader one on
Wednesday.  Both were done in the afternoon, if I remember correctly.

> ball each time.  In 2001, I got picked as a 1st lady one whole
> time and I think I was allowed to dance as part of an accessory
> couple one or two other times.  In 2002, I was only allowed to

Yep, 2001 was a pretty big crowd.  I, one of those in-crowd clique folks
(Dance Floor Chick Year 1), had about the same track record.  It's part of
what happens at Caroso Balls, and is why they're not the only ball format we
do.

> join in as part of an accessory couple and never picked as a 1st

I don't know which of the two CB's that year you attended.  Greg's "real"
one, on Monday, wasn't very large.  I was too tired to make it to the
general one which was Wednesday, I think.

> lady.  One of the years I even spent some time sitting on the
> lord's side in the desperate hope that I would get to dance, as
> there were fewer lords than ladies, but still no luck.

That was the general CB in 2001.  You're pretty much behind the pole Lyev's
flying around in this picture:
http://home.comcast.net/~annikki/pennsic30/carrosti.jpg

I know that as a lady getting one, maybe two chances if I'm REALLY lucky, to
pick a partner, there is absolutely -no- chance that I'd pick another woman
to dance with.  If it's later in the ball and I can spot a lord who hasn't
danced yet, I'll try to bring him in, even if it means not getting to dance
something I rarely get a chance to dance.  But I'm not going to pick a
woman.

> It is very hard to sit on the side and watch some people get
> picked 10 or 15 times and you never get picked.  Personally, I

Even in the smallest of Caroso Balls, I have -never- EVER seen a person get
picked that many times.  Not even the lords when there are very few of them.
I'd say the average number of dances done at a CB is maybe thirty dances,
and no one is getting picked for every third dance.

> feel like I am back in elementary school and getting picked last
> for the team.  I thought I left those days behind me and I am not

I'm sorry you feel that way.  I remember hating that sort of stuff too, but
it is not the situation that I see happening in Caroso Ball's of any type.

> happy to endure them again nor am I happy to pay a substantial
> amount of money to relive them.  [Please keep in mind my

How much, realistically, is four hours of Pennsic worth out of all the time
you are there, particularly when there are so many other things you can do
during those four hours?

> appreciate sitting out and observing *some* dances but, again, I
> didn't come to Pennsic to watch an entire night of dancing.  I

Absolutely NO Caroso Ball is an entire night of dancing.

> dances are aimed at the advanced dancer I question whether the CB
> should be in such a prime time period.  I think a reasonable
> compromise is to have the CB during the day.

One of them was this year.  The other one was during Midnight Madness.  Last
year, they were during the day.  Look at the picture I have of you from
2001 -- it's during the day.

> I am not enthusiastic about the multitude of parties taking place
> at night as many of them exhibit the same traits as I see in the
> real CB.  Many of the parties are double whammies because not

I'm not sure how getting some 30 or so folks dancing at the same time (ex:
10 sets of Petit Vriens) shows any of the supposed elitism and advanced
nature of the real Caroso Ball.

> only don't you get to dance there but there aren't enough dancers

Why is it that you don't get to dance?  There are plenty of easy dances that
fit the theme of whatever party it is, and they are included in the ball
lists.

> left over for dancing at the barn (at least this was true last
> year, this year there was good dancing Tuesday night opposite a party).

Many of the dances that Tuesday night at the barn were also done at the
party.  I know this because I helped make the pre1603 list and I saw the
list that Lorelei made for general dancing that evening.  Also, a few of the
dances at the party were taught right there by Etienne (considering it was a
party to celebrate his laureling, makes sense that we do the dances he
reconstructed... AND make him teach like a Good Laurel ;) ).

> My suggestions are:
> Have parties earlier (6-9) or during the day

During the day is class time.  Holding parties during the day means less
time for classes.  Let's not go there.
6-9 is also generally a Really Bad Time to schedule anything at Pennsic.
This is dinner/clean-up time for the majority of people at War.  And, as
Elena mentioned, the sun hits the dance tent HARD in those early afternoon
hours.

> Have classes during the day to teach the dances for the party that evening

There are classes all week teaching many of the dances that are done at the
parties.  Heck, the ball prep class that runs every day has a lot of them.

> Have the Known World Dance Symposium more often so that people
> can really geek out on dancing

Perhaps.  I'd certainly like to be able to get the KWDS fix every year!  I
suspect that if it were more often, there might be a smaller dance crowd at
BOTH Pennsic and KWDS, as people will not be able to afford both trips every
single year.

So... there's some things that are maybe clarifying some misconceptions
(real Caroso vs. regular Caroso) and way more things that are definately
another side of the story.  Your mileage may vary.

Adele