minstrel: RE: "Celtic" music

[Melissa Frolli]

I am going to have to happily disagree with you. After several years of 
studying classical Latin, and a vast interest in Celto-Romanic Britain, the 
pronunciation "Sell-tic" wouldn't have been used by the Romans. It would 
have been the germanic speaking tribes that brought the use of the softened 
"ess" sound to a C. In classical Latin (mind you not church Latin), C and K 
were used interchangably with each other, and was a hard sound. In Latin, if 
you wanted an Ess sound, you wrote an S. There were no exceptions. In Modern 
French, this is generally the rule, and there are a few exceptions. In 
Modern Irish and Scots Gaelic however, a C is still interchangale with a K 
in most contexts, and is softened by the use of a gutteral, such as an h. An 
example of this is Cuchuaillain, pronounced Cuh-huh-lin, with a bit of the 
gutteral on the second syllable, not Coo-choo-lain or soo-chu-lain, or any 
of the other variants.
Okay, enough of my ranting for now.
Blessings

Aibhilin inghean ui'Mhanchain



~~~~~~~~~~~
Melissa Frolli
http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/rabbitlady

To see a world in a grain of sand,
and heaven in a wild flower
To hold infinity in the palm of your hand
and Eternity in an hour.
    -- William Blake, "Into to Songs of Innocence"





>From: nickolas kaugon <ollaimh at yahoo.com>
>To: yarrowp <yarrowp at mscd.edu>, minstrel <minstrel at pbm.com>
>Subject: Re: minstrel: RE: "Celtic" music
>Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 15:48:17 -0800 (PST)
>
>i don't have any problem with the convient use of
>seltic. it's one of the oldest words for celt. used by
>ceasar and by greeks and found in celiberian wriring.
>it;s alsp found i ireland in the annals. as for the
>music from these diverse people, they share some
>distinct and charastic simmilarities. hence celtic
>music.
>
>it is also a living tradition--which is what really
>bothers the critics i think. if there is an early
>music tradition unbroken to the present then one must
>either adopt and recognize it or find ways to reject
>it if you are into authenticity. most"celtsd aren't
>but you get used to having to argue these things in
>the sca.
>
>on the topic of performing. i genuinely think that the
>mental attutude is most important. with only one or
>two exceptions in my whol;e life, every good performer
>in any style , that i have known spents no time
>putting down other muscians, particularily good
>performers. if yoy are into that you ought to look
>instide and find out why, and when you get over it you
>will likely have made the first real step to being a
>genuine crowd pleasing performer--in any style.
>
>i have busked with a maeieval cittern, an electric
>guitar and everything in between and i try to engage
>people with what ever i'm doing, that's what
>performers spend their time thinking about. how to do
>it better. most every one has a skill they can play
>on. on stage or on the street. as an old boss of mine
>used to say:"there are very few circumstances that
>life hands you that with a little creative thought
>cannot be turned to your advantage". and he lived a
>totally bohemian and independent life , with joy
>accordingly.
>
>some things are alot easier to sell in the sca than
>others, admittedly. filks are the easiest. i don't do
>any filks and if i'm at an event i can get a crowd
>without them. i'm not against filks but most of them
>are too topical for my interest.
>
>as to traditional, i do collect a lot of traditional
>stuff. i arrange it myself , usually quite
>distinctively and hence hold a copy write on my onw
>material(the stuff i didn't write). i actually don't
>like most of the stuff i write, so it usually falls
>out of my repitiors in a few mnths. i've got some jigs
>ans reels that i'm proud of and oddly for a celtoid a
>few modern classical guitar pieces that i occasionally
>try to get the odd classicaly guitarist i know(who
>records) to record. only one has and it dissipeared of
>the in print lists at the speed of light.
>
>however there is a lot of published music that has an
>author that is given as traditional. i mostly record
>nova scotian and new foundland songs. i know miost of
>the living biggies of the area and can find if
>something is traditional but you'll be surprized how
>often i've dug up an author and had to junk recording
>a great tune. (sometimes they go for it as i'm not
>exactly on the charts.)
>
>the great newfoundland lament, "the union from saint
>john'" has a known author. as has kelligrew soiree,
>and i'se the by'se, so you either have to look around
>or get permission if you don't want trouble later.
>there are some very popular fake books like rise up
>singing that appear to make no attempt to find authors
>from anything even a bit obscure. and they freely
>alter lyrics they consider to be politically
>incorrect. see gordon lightfoot"s "early morning rain"
>
>many of the manuscripts i quoted are in my opinion a
>nd in that of many i know in early music, intended to
>be the base to improvise upon. there are several
>authors in scotaland that claim that many of the airs
>in the stralloch and rowanallan are a preservation of
>early gaelic harp music. i think they make a
>convincing arguement, but it's based on
>ethnomusicological arguments so some will not accept
>this. many also think piobreacht for bag pipes
>preserves the gaelic harp music, adapted for a new
>instrument.
>
>the robert ap huw manuscript is a difficlut, though
>interesting manuscript. there are now at least two
>versdionsa and i'm sure there will be more. i don't
>think anyone knows for sure how to read it but it
>still forms the basis to work with.
>
>so ta ta  i'm on the frozen road for three weeks so
>may not get to a computer
>
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