minstrel: Shoolin' aroon...

[Corrie Bergeron]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: minstrel-admin at pbm.com [mailto:minstrel-admin at pbm.com]On Behalf Of
> Lisa and Ken Theriot

> Translating directly and
> translating idiomatically are very different.  Why do translations
> differ?  The goals of the translators differ.

Quite right.  Compare, for example, the Living Bible with the New
International Version or the Revised Standard Version.  When you don't know
the original language, having several different translations helps.

> If a "translation" rhymes and scans (as yours does), it's a good bet
> it's been rather broadly interpreted to fit the new language.  The odds
> of a strict translation rhyming and/or scanning are long indeed.  That's
> undoubtedly the reason for the other obvious mistakes like translating
> <doras> 'door' as "window"-- "door" didn't scan properly.

Right, assuming the original rhymed or scanned.  Much Irish poetry -
especially the old stuff - did not have end-rhyme, or strict meter.  There
was, however, a strong emphasis on vowel-rhyme.

There's a lovely old book by Siegerson, "Bards of the Gael and Gaul" that
dates from the late 1800's I think, with the first big flush of interest in
Things Irish.  His translations are excellent examples of (IMO) bad English
translations of Gaelic and Latin Irish poetry.  The rhyme and scansion are
nearly flawless, and you just KNOW the sense of much of the verses has been
mangled.  There's a much later volume, "Medieval Irish Lyrics" (by Carney, I
think) that gives the original text side-by-side.  If you have a glimmering
understanding of the pronunciation rules in Irish  you can get a hint of the
rhyme and meter.

> The one I posted was pretty strict; the verb <siubhail> means 'travel,
> roam', and the sense of the line is roughly "Let's get the heck out of
> Dodge".  So, technically, neither "go" nor "come" is exactly right, but
> I like "go" slightly better.  The last line, I believe, is meant to be
> ambiguous, as in "Whether you desert your fellows and run off with me,
> or go with them to fight, may you be safe, my darling" and for that
> sense, "come" fails utterly.

Makes sense to me.

> Thus are translations fraught with peril, especially if you expect to be
> able to sing them when you're through.  If you really want your head to
> hurt, ask me sometime why blue and green are the same color in period
> Gaelic...

That sounds interesting, actually.  Maybe I could work it into "The Story of
English." <G>


Sidenote:  In the only motet I've ever written
(http://rocky.itasca.net/~corrie/motet.htm), I wanted the secundus to sound
like the typical English translations of Medieval French poetry I'd read -
IOW, morose and dreadful.  A good gentle who happened to be writing a
dissertation on Medieval French graciously translated it for me.

Brendan