minstrel: guitars, aye!

[Sandi Augsburger]

Ken Theriot wrote:
> 
> Cecily, was it the opera comment?

Was _what_ the opera comment? I don't know what you are referring to
here.
> 
> My lady, you wrote, "the figure-8 shaped instrument did not come into
> existence until the end of the 1700s". 

If you include the sentence before the one quoted above, my meaning
becomes more clear:

 "But guitars were not. The figure-8 shaped instrument did not come into
existence until the end of the 1700's."

I am sorry if I was unclear, but I was refering to the figure-8 shaped
_guitar_. Yes, there were many other instruments with many other shapes.
But, guitar did not get its present shape and basic construction until
the 1700's.

> The French music of 1552 for the "guiterne" shows an instrument which is by no means a gittern, it is a guitar (distinguishable from modern only in that it has the seventh string chanterelle). 

The outer appearance of instruments is not the only way to compare them,
and it is only one factor that determines the sound of the instruments.
More important is the inside structure and bracing. 

That is a major difference between the guitar Sor used and the modern
Spanish guitar. The sound is reflected, increased and deployed in
different ways.

You can look at a picture of an electric guitar and say it has a
figure-8 shape, six strings, and is tuned EADGBE, so it must be the same
as a regular guitar. But their sound production techniques are totally
different, and their construction is based on totally different
scientific principles. Personaly I do not consider it a guitar - but
rather an electric soundbox with strings - and, as such, it is a
legitimate instrument, but it is not really a guitar. 

The present shape of the guitar was derived on purpose by a guitar
production family in order to make the guitar easier to hold than its
lute cousins. The bottom incision of the 8 was meant to fit over the
left knee, and the top left hump was meant to hold the left arm. 

When the right knee is added on the bottom, a triagular vise is created,
holding the guitar securely, and freeing up both hands to play. The
rounded back was flattened, also for ease of holding, and this
necessitated different bracing on the inside in order to not lose the
sound that the additional space of the rounded back produced. Also, at
this time the six string model became the standard, the neck was
flattened, and the tuning was set at EGBDF.

> I will be happy to snail mail you some.

I would love to have more information! Thank you very much for the
offer. My snail mail address is:
Sandra Augsburger
615 W. Doris Ave. N.
Paul, ID 83347

> About "plucking with callouses" rather than nails or plectra (picks), you
> are proceeding from an English bias related to the lute; guitarra latina
> was played "rasgado" by "ripping" the thumb across the strings (i.e.,
> strumming). 

Here we have a difference of terms: "rasgeado" means something different
in classical guitar terminology. It refers to closing the hand into a
fist and releasing the fingers, one by one, to create a continuous
strumming sound. Often the little finger is not used. Rasgeado can be
done with both nails and callouses, it makes no difference.

I refer you to page 132 of, _MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS FROM THE RENAISSANCE TO
THE 19TH CENTURY_ which has many pictures, including pictures of early
guitars from the 17th century:

		"Much of the music written for the lute, especially that of the 16th 
century, was taken over for a similar instrument which became popular in
the 	18th century, when the lute suffered a decline: the guitar...
		It's origins are uncertain, though instruments similar in appearance 
occur on Egytian murals. It is known that the guitar existed among the
Latin 	peoples early in the Christian era."

>From there the early lute-family instruments were brought to Europe
during the crusades. They spread from Spain into the rest of Europe
during the next few centuries. The lute-family instrument that was most
popular in Spain was, as you said, the vihuela, and it remained dominant
until the rise of the English and Flemish schools during the late
Renaissance. 

Note that the guitar did not come to Europe, but other members of the
lute-family did. During our SCA period, the guitar was not used. First
the vihuela was used, then it was rapidly supplanted by the lute,
especially in Northern Europe. This includes Scandinavia, of course,
where Dowland was the court lutenist. Then in the 17th century (the
above quote says 18th century, but the book shows a guitar-like
instrument from 1624) the guitar replaced the lute, and its structure
became standardized.

I think it is a leap of faith to say that 
	-since there were guitar-like instruments in Egypt, and in the Latin
countries 		in the early Christian era, 
	-and guitars popped up again in the 17th century in Europe, 
that one can then assume that it had existed in Europe during the Middle
Ages and Renaissance. There is no historical proof of this.
 I quote Frederick Grunfeld from his
> The Art and Times of the Guitar, " It was the cittern, and not the guitar,
> that inherited the form and function of the medieval gittern.  The very
> word cittern, in fact, was a sixteenth-century formation that came to use
> in England just at the time when the obsolete gittern was being supplanted
> by the bigger and better-sounding Spanish guitar. 

This is true.

> "In the ensuing conflict
> between "gittern" and "guitarra" one of the names had to go..." He goes on
> to comment on an 18th century citation showing a cittern and calling it "an
> English guitar".

Could you especially send me the picture of this cittern? I have never
heard of a cittern being called an English guitar. The Harvard
Dictionary of Music says on page 363,

		"In the 18th century the cittern was much used in England under the 
name 'English guitar'."

Note, the dictionary did not say it was a guitar, but a cittern. Also
note the date. 

> The name game can never be settled. 

This may be part of our problem. I do not consider an instrument a
guitar just because it looks like one. There are many more factors than
just its appearance. The people of Europe did not call their lute-family
instrument a guitar, and neither does the Harvard dictionary of music.

I have written so much that my head is spinning. So, I'd better send
this before I get totally confused and start repeating myself!

I look forward to receiving your information!!

Cecily Alys de Percy
(MKA: Sandi)

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