Comments RE:Topic:Honor Form:ABAB (

[Mike Baker]

Robin Hilp replied to my commentary
(Robin/Margret, apologies if replying on-list raises any embarrassment -- I 
think it the better choice, considering how this exchange began)

> Wow, thanks for the great analysis!

It is a pleasure to serve, kind Margret.

>> Suggestion / Request (*not* requirement): if items posted for critique 
have
>> titles, I would suggest that we include them.
> How were titles devised, in period?

Many poems appear to have been known primarily by their first line. TTBOMK 
(to the best of my knowledge), the numbering of Shakespeare's sonnets was 
applied long after their composition.  Longer works, such as would stand 
alone as a "book", seem to have been titled in the fashion we as moderns are 
familiar with.

> Presumably the troubadour had a good idea of
> what sort of title would intrigue an audience and set up the desired
> expectations?

I am still delving into the forms and strictures of the troubadour, 
trouvere, and minnesingern -- and cannot as yet say with certainty what 
their expectations may have been on this point.  The majority of the 
examples I have encountered appear to be known most widely by their first 
lines.

> Heart and mouth and thought and life
> Be of one philosophy;
> Work together in the strife
> 'Tween need and generosity.
>
> Heart and mouth and thought may give;
> Life must keep to self-preserve.
> How well should another live?
> Of comfort, what does self deserve?
>>Possible that this could be made more effective for modern eyes by adding 
a
>>period after "self-preserve"; keeping in mind the aberrant history of the
>>usage of punctuation, perhaps not such a good thing when trying to emulate 

>>pre-1600 styles..
> I've added end-of-line punctuation as for modern printing of this poem. 
 I'd
> put mid-line punctuation in automatically ... maybe that wasn't 
appropriate
> in the first place?

Errrrr, I'm not sure.  Disclaimer: I confess to being one who generally 
remembers the word behind the "C" in SCA.  For modern performers, the 
punctuation helps immensely in preserving the author's expected / preferred 
accenting & emotions; for strict adherents to "period style", it may be too 
much / slightly jarring. Personally, I prefer to remain true to the 
performance intended.

>>Quibble: without knowing that there was an intent to address the topic of
>>"honor", I might not have picked up on that aspect.  I found particularly
>>misleading at first reading the way in which self-preservation was
>>introduced, as it is often noted as one of the things that may be tossed
>>aside when honor is invoked.
>That is indeed the point, which is indeed not obvious because, as you note,
>the poem wasn't complete.  Oops.  I left off verses 3 thru 5 because I'm 
not
>satisfied with them and the first 2 verses are at least a complete 
question.
>Which in context of this forum *is* rather inadequate isn't it!  So, here's
>verse 5, the summary of the issue, which also btw makes the honor 
connection:
>Honor calls for charity;
>Life calls lack catastrophe.
>To balance this disparity
>Must be our hearts' philosophy.

The shift to shorter line length for the final stanza is reminiscent of 
several of the formats used by the troubadour et al.

>OTOH, I don't know whether verses 3 and 4 are necessary at all.  So I'm
>still inclined to leave them out.  Here they are, anyway:
>Self in other's hearts may dwell,
>When mouth gives comfort false or true.
>Thoughts control slackly or well
>All what in life self wants to do.

>Heart is love, hence charity;
>Mouth can speak our best intent.
>Thought makes perpetuity
>Of life in bonds of honor pent.

Possibly not *as* necessary, but these verses do tend to flesh out the 
whole.  I myself would probably record / write out the full form and 
conveniently leave out 3 & 4 in performance.  (One of my own works receives 
similar treatment:  I've performed the entirety of the thing perhaps thrice 
in fifteen years, while I haul the "court form" out at least twice a year, 
once per reign.)

Further, the 5-stanza form gives me, personally, more of the "period feel". 
 The majority of pre-17th century European poetry that I currently recall 
runs at least 14 lines (sonnet) or four stanzas (16 lines), with the 
exception of fragments embedded in other works.

Kihe Blackeagle (the Dreamsinger Bard)  s.k.a. Amr ibn Majid al-Bakri 
al-Amra
     currently residing in Barony of the Steppes, Kingdom of Ansteorra
Mike C. Baker                      mbaker at rapp.com
Any opinions expressed are obviously my own unless explicitly stated 
otherwise!