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<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Jon</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>It
seems very likely that the four-sided Long Laurence described and drawn by
Francis Willughby represents an earlier stage of development compared to the
eight-sided version described in Alfred Easther: A glossary of the dialect of
Almondbury and Huddersfield, 1883, reprint Vaduz 1965, and quoted by Alice
Bertha Gomme in her book: The traditional games of England, Scotland and
Ireland, 1894-98, reprint New York 1964 (p.326f.).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Occasionally the Lang Laurence which Alfred Easther knew had only four
sides, so this tradition was still alive in the late 19th c.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Now I
found my photocopy of Willughby's book. In my last e-mail I referred to a note
mentioning the year 1607 as the earliest reference to this game. The text of the
note tells: "This game is alluded to by Willughby's contemporary John Wilson in
his play T</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>'The
Cheats' (1607: iv.i.46); it was still in use in the nineteenth century. It
closely resembles the game of the tee-totum and its relatives, including the
Jewish dreidel, which are essentially the same device in the form of a
polyhedral top. A similar four-sided stick is used as a die in
India."</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The
year 1607 can not be correct. John Wilson (1627?-1696) who was indeed a
contemporary of Francis Willughby (1635-1672)wrote 'The Cheats' in 1662.
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>It
would also have been more relevant to refer to the similar four-sided stick used
for the put-and-take game in Denmark and Northern Germany (Schleswig-Holstein),
than to mention the Indian stick dice used in quite different
games.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Under
the heading 'Long Laurence' Willughby writes:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>"A
Long Laurence is a long parallelopipedon, one of whose sides has nothing cut
upon it and is called Blanke, the opposite side has severall crosse lilnes &
crosses & is called Soope All. One of the other sides has 2 crosse lines,
& the opposite to it one.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Everie
one of the plaiers stake one at first, and then they throw the Long Laurence by
turnes as a die. If a Blanke bee throwne they neither take up nor lay downe any.
If Soope All, they take up all. If the side that has [two vertical lines] upon
it, they lay downe 2. If the side that has [one vertical line], they take up
one. And as often as all are taken up they all stake againe.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>A
tetraedrical die would serve better for this game, with the same marks upon the
4 sides."</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Willughby's drawing of the four sides of the die shows 4 crosses and 2
vertical lines on the side named 'Soope All'.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>It
seems that the exact number of crosses could vary. The number was not important,
as the crosses and lines should simply</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>symbolize that the whole pool was taken. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Easther's L.L. differs from Willughby's, having 10 crosses and a
mysterious W on two of its sides. It seems that this L.L. tradition was
influenced by a dice stick tradition known from West Flanders and South-West
Norway, which again had other parallels in South Western Scotland, the Faroe
Isles and other parts of Southern Norway. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>More
about this in my next e-mail.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Best
wishes,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Peter.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=400450122-15052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----<BR><B>Fra:</B>
hist-games-bounces@www.pbm.com [mailto:hist-games-bounces@www.pbm.com]<B>På
vegne af </B>Jon at Gothic Green Oak<BR><B>Sendt:</B> 15-05-2007
21:24<BR><B>Til:</B> hist-games@www.pbm.com<BR><B>Emne:</B> hist-games: Long
Lawrence<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Peter</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>What you have told us is fascinating and so
please do send more. The markings on the sides of the Long Lawrence are
enigmatic and any light on this would be very interesting. I would be
interested especially if you think the suggestion that the ten linked crosses
said to represent the gridiron upon which poor old St Lawrence met his end,
post dates the invention of the die, and therefore initially derive from
elsewhere. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The idea that the totum (formerly teetotum, thank
you) originates in the Jewish community is I agree something that would be
difficult to demonstrate unless there was a much earlier jewish reference.
Though what you say is interesting and certainly suggests that this may be the
case. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>A question though - is there any reference to
whether the Long Lawrence was originally square in section with each symbol
appearing once or eight sided with each symbol appearing twice. The latter is
easier to roll but may be a later development. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Jon Hather</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>