hist-games: dating period card games

Imran Ghory imran at bits.bris.ac.uk
Sat Oct 19 11:43:23 PDT 2002

On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, John McLeod wrote:

> >Wit and reason - 1680
> Both these games are described in Cotton's Compleat Gamester (1674).

The 1680 dating for Wit and reason is from Cotton's work (I was only able
to verify with a 1680 edition). There are a number of other likely
earlier uses of the term "wit and reason" but I have been unable to say
with certainty whether the game is meant, for instance from 1600 I have a

He that doth bring men into bonds of dept, 
And feede their humors with a card of tenne; 
She that can mump, and mince, and ierke, and iet 
As though she were old chaunteclers chiefe hene; 
How ere their purses build the golden penne, 
In the best rules that wit and reason haue, 
She may be thought a queane and he a knaue.  

> >Sant - 1591
> Parlett notes in his History of Card Games that Cavendish found a
> reference to Saunt (the same game, presumably?) from 1532.

Through other means I've managed to track down the game to "Saunt" in  
Tottel's Dice Play (1532), does anyone know if this is the one Cavendish
meant ?


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