hist-brewing: hist-brewing Digest, Vol 30, Issue 8

Paloma Hill peeweenation at myfastmail.com
Tue Feb 23 21:44:53 PST 2010


you're driving me crazy - I've setup to get offf his list several 
times.  will you help me!~
paloma

On 2/23/2010 12:00 PM, hist-brewing-request at pbm.com wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
>     1. ancient ale (Merryn Dineley)
>     2. Re: ancient ale (Will Hanrott)
>     3. Re: ancient ale (MadTaz1 at aol.com)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:50:24 +0000
> From: Merryn Dineley<merryn at dineley.com>
> Subject: hist-brewing: ancient ale
> To: hist-brewing at pbm.com
> Message-ID:<4B83CF10.6010205 at dineley.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hello all, I am still reading through the excellent posts that came as a
> reply to my initial query about this! Thank you all very much indeed - I
> have been delighted by the response. I aim to reply to individual points
> raised. However, I am still spending far too much time tussling with
> computers to get my papers and research on line and meeting other
> necessary deadlines.
>
> I agree with most of what has been said  - except for the chewing grain
> bit. My investigations indicate that in South America, when they make
> chicha, they cook the corn to a mush, then they roll it into little
> balls and 'chew' it, ie roll it round their mouths, then spit it out. I
> could be wrong, of course. Corn is too hard to chew when raw, so is
> barley, or wheat for that matter. Teeth would break, let's not go there!
>
> I work at a Visitor Centre to a Neolithic tomb on Orkney, Scotland - the
> Tomb of the Eagles. The tour guides there would tell tales of Granny
> chewing at the barley, then spitting it out into a pot to make the beer.
> It would have tourists shuddering in horror (some of the tour guides
> there tell a very good tale). I do not advise chewing raw barley.....
> the grains are tough as little stones! I did not damage my teeth but
> imagine it could happen. As one contributor pointed out - there is far
> more amylase released during germination, so that is the more likely
> method.
>
> Finally, for this email anyway, I have recently had a response from my
> ex Professor - who, ten years ago, refused to support my funding bid to
> investigate the possible biomarkers/archaeobotanical evidence for
> brewing ale in prehistory. Now he says they might have been drinking
> 'some kind of alcohol' There are some archaeologists out there who
> reckon 'cider not ale' in the British neolithic. Cider made from
> crab-apples .....
>
> .... what is it they say? One step forwards, two steps backwards!
>
> Thanks again for your informed, intelligent, erudite and sometimes
> amusing comments on ancient malt and ale. I shall write more to you
> later, bye for now, and Cheers!
> Merryn Dineley
> http://independent.academia.edu/MerrynDineley
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:16:58 +0000 (GMT)
> From: Will Hanrott<w_hanrott at yahoo.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: hist-brewing: ancient ale
> To: hist-brewing at pbm.com
> Message-ID:<48694.32619.qm at web23101.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> I've been meaning to get back onto this thread. My comments about chewing the grain were a bit speculative but I don't think that the responses adequately rule the possibility out.
>
> Mr Butler-Ehle commented that Amylase is present in malted grain as well as saliva and that the concentrations are considerably greater in the latter. This is fair, but optimal temperature and time matters as well as concentrations. We have seen that Amylase is a general term for enzymes which convert starch to sugars. There are two very different types in grain with different optimal temperatures. Since salivary amylase works well at body temperature I remain unconvinced -from those arguments- that it lacks efficacy.
>
> Merryn Dineley commented below that it wouldn't be wise to chew grain. This is fair, if you assume that you're using the high dried grain that we're accustomed to. If, however, it was crushed and soaked first in a pestle (or grinding rock) then it might not cause you injury.
>
> I am still neither a biochemist nor an archaeologist. This thread has been very interesting and I hope that you'll take my comments in the vein that they are made.
>
> Regards,
> Will
>
>
> --- On Tue, 23/2/10, Merryn Dineley<merryn at dineley.com>  wrote:
>
>    
>> From: Merryn Dineley<merryn at dineley.com>
>> Subject: hist-brewing: ancient ale
>> To: hist-brewing at pbm.com
>> Date: Tuesday, 23 February, 2010, 12:50
>> Hello all, I am still reading through
>> the excellent posts that came as a
>> reply to my initial query about this! Thank you all very
>> much indeed - I
>> have been delighted by the response. I aim to reply to
>> individual points
>> raised. However, I am still spending far too much time
>> tussling with
>> computers to get my papers and research on line and meeting
>> other
>> necessary deadlines.
>>
>> I agree with most of what has been said? - except for
>> the chewing grain
>> bit. My investigations indicate that in South America, when
>> they make
>> chicha, they cook the corn to a mush, then they roll it
>> into little
>> balls and 'chew' it, ie roll it round their mouths, then
>> spit it out. I
>> could be wrong, of course. Corn is too hard to chew when
>> raw, so is
>> barley, or wheat for that matter. Teeth would break, let's
>> not go there!
>>
>> I work at a Visitor Centre to a Neolithic tomb on Orkney,
>> Scotland - the
>> Tomb of the Eagles. The tour guides there would tell tales
>> of Granny
>> chewing at the barley, then spitting it out into a pot to
>> make the beer.
>> It would have tourists shuddering in horror (some of the
>> tour guides
>> there tell a very good tale). I do not advise chewing raw
>> barley.....
>> the grains are tough as little stones! I did not damage my
>> teeth but
>> imagine it could happen. As one contributor pointed out -
>> there is far
>> more amylase released during germination, so that is the
>> more likely
>> method.
>>
>> Finally, for this email anyway, I have recently had a
>> response from my
>> ex Professor - who, ten years ago, refused to support my
>> funding bid to
>> investigate the possible biomarkers/archaeobotanical
>> evidence for
>> brewing ale in prehistory. Now he says they might have been
>> drinking
>> 'some kind of alcohol' There are some archaeologists out
>> there who
>> reckon 'cider not ale' in the British neolithic. Cider made
>> from
>> crab-apples .....
>>
>> .... what is it they say? One step forwards, two steps
>> backwards!
>>
>> Thanks again for your informed, intelligent, erudite and
>> sometimes
>> amusing comments on ancient malt and ale. I shall write
>> more to you
>> later, bye for now, and Cheers!
>> Merryn Dineley
>> http://independent.academia.edu/MerrynDineley
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> hist-brewing mailing list
>> hist-brewing at pbm.com
>> http://www.pbm.com/mailman/listinfo/hist-brewing
>>
>>      
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:43:38 EST
> From: MadTaz1 at aol.com
> Subject: Re: hist-brewing: ancient ale
> To: merryn at dineley.com, hist-brewing at pbm.com
> Message-ID:<eca0.6d2e7ad8.38b57bda at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> I think the wild yeasts might figure into this as they did in ancient and
> not so ancient winemaking!
>
>
> In a message dated 2/23/2010 6:50:35 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> merryn at dineley.com writes:
>
> Hello  all, I am still reading through the excellent posts that came as a
> reply  to my initial query about this! Thank you all very much indeed - I
> have  been delighted by the response. I aim to reply to individual points
> raised. However, I am still spending far too much time tussling with
> computers to get my papers and research on line and meeting other
> necessary deadlines.
>
> I agree with most of what has been said   - except for the chewing grain
> bit. My investigations indicate that in  South America, when they make
> chicha, they cook the corn to a mush, then  they roll it into little
> balls and 'chew' it, ie roll it round their  mouths, then spit it out. I
> could be wrong, of course. Corn is too hard to  chew when raw, so is
> barley, or wheat for that matter. Teeth would break,  let's not go there!
>
> I work at a Visitor Centre to a Neolithic tomb on  Orkney, Scotland - the
> Tomb of the Eagles. The tour guides there would  tell tales of Granny
> chewing at the barley, then spitting it out into a  pot to make the beer.
> It would have tourists shuddering in horror (some of  the tour guides
> there tell a very good tale). I do not advise chewing raw  barley.....
> the grains are tough as little stones! I did not damage my  teeth but
> imagine it could happen. As one contributor pointed out - there  is far
> more amylase released during germination, so that is the more  likely
> method.
>
> Finally, for this email anyway, I have recently had  a response from my
> ex Professor - who, ten years ago, refused to support  my funding bid to
> investigate the possible biomarkers/archaeobotanical  evidence for
> brewing ale in prehistory. Now he says they might have been  drinking
> 'some kind of alcohol' There are some archaeologists out there  who
> reckon 'cider not ale' in the British neolithic. Cider made from
> crab-apples .....
>
> .... what is it they say? One step forwards, two  steps backwards!
>
> Thanks again for your informed, intelligent, erudite  and sometimes
> amusing comments on ancient malt and ale. I shall write more  to you
> later, bye for now, and Cheers!
> Merryn  Dineley
> http://independent.academia.edu/MerrynDineley
>
>
>
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> End of hist-brewing Digest, Vol 30, Issue 8
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